Location: The basic rules of Twixt

Discussion: Computer rules are the same BUT...Reported This is a featured thread

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maraca
maraca
Computer rules are the same BUT...
Jul 28 2008, 8:14 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 28 2008, 8:14 AM EDT
Often computer rules are implemented differently, because you don't want a "I finished my move" button. That's what I've seen often:
0. Remove as many links as you want
1. Place as many links as you want
2. Place a peg (all possible links to this peg will be added automatically and it's the other players turn if it isn't a winning move)
This change of rules doesn't effect the game, just don't get confused by the different order... Do you find this valuable?    
honest1abe
honest1abe
1. RE: Computer rules are the same BUT...
Aug 23 2008, 10:35 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 23 2008, 10:35 PM EDT
I believe you are referring to the fact that the current computer versions of Twixt do not allow one to remove links. Your solution sounds feasible, however, I can not think of a single instance where I could benefit from removing any links. Do you find this valuable?    
alhensel
alhensel
2. RE: Computer rules are the same BUT...
Aug 24 2008, 5:29 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 24 2008, 5:29 PM EDT
A few years ago, David Bush was trying to formulate an argument for link removal on LG, and I helped him out by generating a list of games where the winner had crossed links. But it was a small list. Sometimes the outcome would have probably been different with link removal, but it seems that none of the cases involve particularly popular patterns. It's not even clear which rule is usually more interesting.

It would be interesting to know what the late Alex Randolph would say if we asked him why he chose link removal instead of link crossing. I think it's possible that he might just say that it was the easier thing to do with plastic pieces.

Either way reduces the likelihood of a draw. Link removal is, in a sense, more elegant. But link crossing should result in fewer draws.

It is interesting to me that link removal is easier in real life and problematic on the computer, while link crossing is easier on the computer and problematic in real life. It breaks the thinking that you should be able to model the real world just fine on the computer.

For what it's worth, k2z, my Twixt Board Prototype, and my Twixt Puzzle site implement link removal. I seem to remember there's a way to remove links in JTwixt, too, but I'm not very familiar with JTwixt.
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twixter
twixter
3. RE: Computer rules are the same BUT...
Aug 29 2008, 10:58 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 29 2008, 10:58 AM EDT
"I believe you are referring to the fact that the current computer versions of Twixt do not allow one to remove links. Your solution sounds feasible, however, I can not think of a single instance where I could benefit from removing any links."
Just to respond to your point, the most common reason for removing links is to win instead of draw. The object is to form a contiguous chain of linked pegs connecting your border rows. Sometimes you have two groups which are very close to each other, completely blocking any winning chain by the opponent, but your opponent tries to block you from connecting these groups. You may need to remove a link to gain the "elbow room" to connect your groups.
An example of this is at http://twixt.wetpaint.com/page/Link+Removal
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twixter
twixter
4. RE: Computer rules are the same BUT...
Aug 29 2008, 11:12 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 29 2008, 11:12 AM EDT
A few points to add to what Alan said:

I gave up trying to get link removal on Little Golem because it's not going to happen anyway, and probably shouldn't at this point. There are over 20K PP games archived so far. It's not just a programming challenge, it's a challenge to explain to the users. Many players would be confused. What would happen with games in progress versus new games, etc. etc. It would be an amazing mess.

Randolph originally developed Twixt as a paper and pencil game, with PP rules, so he understood about the rules difference.

To remove a link in Jtwixt, press Control as you place your peg. You enter "manual mode" and the next-move indicator changes color. Remove your links by clicking on them. Add links by clicking on a peg of yours. Finish your move by pressing control as you click on any peg of yours.

An contrived position which is a win for one player under standard rules, but a win for the other under PP rules, is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twixt#Variants 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?